I just watched the preview for Moneyball on YouTube - I'll probably see it as I'm a bit of a sucker for baseball movies: the quintessential American sport captured by the quintessential American art form. Even the really terrible ones like The Babe and Cobb have their moments. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that 1000 people have already posted their list of greatest ever baseball films on the blogosphere (here's baseball almanac's list) but what the hell, like I say, I love baseball and I love movies so here’s mine:
1.Bull Durham
2.The Natural
3.The Bad News Bears
4.Field of Dreams
5.Eight Men Out
6.Pride of the Yankees
7.61*
8.The Jackie Robinson Story
9.Bang The Drum Slowly
10.Major League
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42 comments:
What's wrong with Cobb?
And the ending to The Natural means it sucks the big one ... "Say it ain't so, Rob."
Cheers, Dec
Dec
Yeah "really terrible" is a bit harsh isn't it? I just never connected with Cobb. That may be more about Ty Cobb than the film?
The Natural isn't about Shoeless Joe Jackson. It's a fairy tale. All good baseball movies are fairy tales. In fact I think this is how Americans tell fairy tales - through baseball stories.
Is the book better than the film? Well I don't know, I've always found the book a bit weird.
For me, there's BULL DURHAM and EIGHT MEN OUT, then everything else.
Thanks for that.
Moneyball was a great read and a major baseball book for its time, even though some other informed sources say that the long time statistics prove that the Moneyball philosophy, as a predictor of major league success, was ultimately a failure.
See, for instance, The Beauty of Short Hops: How Chance and Circumstance Confound the Moneyball Approach to Baseball, by Sheldon and Alan Hirsch.
My own top list of baseball books would start with David James Duncan's THE BROTHER K, which deserves to be a movie, as well as Michael Bishop's BRITTLE INNINGS, Josh Wilker's CARDBOARD GODS, Sam Walker's FANTASYLAND, Jim Brosnan's memoir, THE LONG SEASON, Pat Jordan's memoir, A NICE TUESDAY, and Howard Frank Mosher's novel, WAITING FOR TEDDY WILLIAMS.
I suppose I would have to put Jeff Pearlman's THE BAD GUYS WON and Jim Bouton's BALL FOUR PLUS FIVE on the list as well, but I tend to detest books written about egotistical jocks. Especially if they are written or ghosted for the jocks themselves.
Of course, W. P. Kinsella's SHOELESS JOE and THE IOWA BASEBALL CONFEDERACY are fine novels.
Great list. I have seen all of them. Thanks for reminding me about BTDS. That was right up there with Brian's Song in the tear jerker catagory.
The Sandlot wasn't too bad, but more of a kids flick.
Ever see Sugar, Adrian? About the Dominican prospect trying to cut it in American pro ball? By the same folks who made Half Nelson.
Another one that would by on my top 10 list is Pastime, a direct-to video flick about a minor league team in the late 50s.
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi4003397913/
I rank Bang the Drum Slowly a little bit higher. I loved those baseball books Mark Harris wrote. Highly recommended if you haven't read them yet. Those books were written 50 years ago but you could imagine some of those conversations happening today.
A couple of clips from the original 1956 production with Paul Newman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tNwl7pXWkc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWVK-mJAElk&feature=related
I'd love to see a movie about THE BOSS. Even though I hate the Yankees, George was interesting.
Bouton's books have little fondness for egotistical jocks. In one of them, he deplores the practice of basbell players taking money to promote their own game: showing up at a banquet, mumbling a speech, then slipping out the door with a waitress. And he's always poking fun at the special treatment the Yankees' stars got.
I wonder what he thinks today, when players charge money for authographs at shows for which fans have to pay to get in.
And how about "The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract" and Lawrence Ritter's "The Glory of Their Times" for the best-book list?
======================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
It's been made fun of a lot, but what about the Ken Burns documentary?
And that's a good list, but I might drop Major League for A League of Their Own.
Adrian, I just watched the trailer. Wow, the statistics guy is a young, fat little nerd just out of school. Imagine that.
To get back to the "Cutter and Bone" discussion, in which the bad guys always come out on top, how many pennants have the A's won under Billy Beane?
======================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Dana
Can't argue with those two. Eight Men Out could maybe have stood a bit of a bigger budget but he did miracles with what he had.
Rich
Well if we're talking baseball books I suppose for me it's got to be The Boys Of Summer - yeah its a bit sentimental but so what?
Sean
I always get the Sandlot and Stand By Me mixed up in memory. I think they both have incidents with vicious dogs.
Matt
No I havent, but I've heard good things. In fact I had a whole conversation with a cabbie about Sugar in NYC in January. That and Robinson Cano. He was Dominican.
Lew
Well there's always those scenes from Seinfeld where Larry David did the voice...
Peter
Yup I've got the Bill James. Been half way around the world that book. I wonder if you get it on the Kindle do the editions update every year?
I like the theory behind Moneyball - walks, total bases etc. etc. but surely it's been a complete and utter failure in practice.
John
The music put me off that KB documentary as it did the civil war one. And the slow close ups of old photographs. He's got a few irritating ticks as a director that guy.
A League of Their Own? Its maybe less obnoxious than Major League but on the other hand its got Madonna in it. But then again I like Bitty Schram and Tom Hanks.
Back in the early 80's I saw a documentary at the Montreal Film Festival about Bill Lee but it never got released. It was okay, but now I see he has his own out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q9fHiJT6c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
John: You notice that there are no more interesting, zany players anymore? Lots of interesting reasons for that, I suspect: Money, ESPN, zealous guarding against the possibility of doing anything to endanger one's earning power, the impossibly wide financial gulf between players and fans. etc,
======================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Adrian, I'm not sure that the theory has been a failure as much as that money still matters. It used to be that rich owners, like Ted Turner and the early Steinbrenner, got themselves in trouble with arrogance, incompetence, and stupidity. Then they hired smart baseball men, and everybody started paying attention to the things Bill James paid attention to.
Knowledge and brains are good, but they can't beat knowledge, brains, and money.
Some of the concepts in that "Moneyball" trailer are pure Bill James, and I hope he gets credit somewhere.
======================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
John
Thanks for that.
Peter
As for zany players I dont know, but I really like Curtis Granderson. He's intelligent, articulate, thoughtful and self depreciating.
Despite Jeter being the Yankees Captain, Granderson was the overwhelming choice as the players rep.
Yes, Peter, not so much zany anymore. The Bill Lee movie page led me to this:
http://www.vintagebbf.com/index.html
Baseball may also be the most nostalgic of sports.
Peter
If the WS is Sox-Phils or Yankees-Phils or Rangers-Phils I think we'll finally see if good pitching beats good hitting.
John
On a similar topic, I think this might make a good documentary.
Adrian- You are correct about the vicious dogs. Bang the Drum Slowly and Brian's Song got me to thinking about a movie called "Eric" from 1975 about a young soccer player with leukemia,Eric Lund. Just learned that it was adapted from a book his mom Doris Lund wrote in 1974 about his battle and it is still very highly regarded. The movie is avail on tube in seperate segments.
You want zany? Here's a zany.
http://brianwilson38.com/
Sean
I've bits of that here and there. Brian's Song is too much for me. Just can't take. Or The Champ. Jesus. No way.
Lew
He eats 60 eggs a week.
Lew Archer, a true zany would not have a Web site promoting his own zaniness. Maybe the true zanies have retreated from the world to await a time more congenial to them.
I'm new here. I came to your books through Declan Burke's blog, and i am really liking them, and I love baseball. I find your blog a delight and not at all as hard boiled as Michael Forsythe, although I like his vulnerability very much. I like the strong sense of justice that permeates your books. I hope it's okay to write a fan letter here. I couldn't find another way.
Oh man, THE CHAMP, good call.
Peter
But how would we have found out about the eggs otherwise?
Lil
The praise is much appreciated. I used to say that praise worried me but these days I'm usually in a fragile emotional state and any kind of praise is welcome and I dig it.
Sean
I'd like to see the father who could hold it together for a Champ, Field of Dreams double bill.
The Natural was filmed in the Buffalo Bills old stadium lovingly known as the rockpile. Every knob and his brother on the next barstool claim to have been hired as extras. I never understood the power of a french horn until that scene where the ball broke the stadium light. I think I remember that sight and sound more than any of the plot since I saw it in disjointed sections on HBO when it was released. In agreement that the ending did in fact blow though.
I haven't looked at the Wilson site yet. Is he the guy who eats all the eggs? At first I thought the link was going to be to that clip of him trashing his own dugout a month or so back. Putz.
Rasta
The musical cues may have been a bit excessive...
The scene in the cornfield, too er, corny? Maybe. I could live with it even though it seemed to be something that added after negative screen testing in Duluth.
Incidentally, this season's Curb Your Enthusiasm has been very baseball centric.
Two weeks ago they went to the baseball hall of fame and last night there was a terrific Bill Buckner storyline...
Peter
He eats a lot of eggs.
I don't know if you get HBO but I think you might like last night Curb Your Enthusiasm too.
Did the eggs make him do this?
Peter - he's commercialized his zaniness. Plus, he eats a lot of eggs.
- he's commercialized his zaniness. Plus, he eats a lot of eggs.
Cholesterol in massive doses may loosen one’s inhibitions, then.
======================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
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